Bryan Quigley (Posts about Crazy Ideas)

When should i386 support for Ubuntu end?

Bryan Quigley — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 20:04:43 GMT

Are you running i386 (32-bit) Ubuntu? We need your help to decide how much longer to build i386 images of Ubuntu Desktop, Server, and all the flavors. There is a real cost to support i386 and the benefits have fallen as more software goes 64-bit only. Please fill out the survey here ONLY if you currently run i386 on one of your machines. 64-bit users will NOT be affected by this, even if you run 32-bit applications. http://goo.gl/forms/UfAHxIitdWEUPl5K2

32 bit usage - survey results

Bryan Quigley — Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:47:29 GMT

Running 32 bit Ubuntu when the hardware technically can do 64 bit

hardware issues varied from EUFI 32 bit only, to printer and driver issues
application included wine (try building wine on 64 bit...) and virtualization
- some 64 bit users use 32 bit images for virtualization to use less RAM
- Not in survey but I know of others who use 32 bit specifically to work with Android.

Arch vs Desktop Environment vs Release

Please do not use this to really compare desktop environments! If multiple answers I took the least resource intensive one! (Next time I do this.. I should just require users to pick a primary one)

Impacts over Releases

Switch from Ubuntu - also includes plans to stay on old unsupported version until hardware dies
Moderate is somewhat a catch all
If I do this again, I should just have a 1-5 sliding scale, in addition to a text field.
Users are concerned about having to throw out old machines, not having an upgrade path to go from 32-> 64 bits, and the cost to upgrade.
Select Comments (many more in the raw data of course!)
- As an aspiring software developer, phasing out 32 bit support would be great for me as it means one less build to maintain.
- I plan on reinstalling Ubuntu on this laptop as a 64bit install at some point anyway.
- Unless the schedule changes, no impact. We're planning to do the switch late 2015 / early 2016.
- I will have to stay on 16.04 forever on that machine. The needed drivers are not going to be available in an open-source form.

- My parents + my children have no PC
- we have old PC's in the hospital and i don't think this hardware would be upgraded.
- If the majority of freely given computers we receive are still 32-bit by then, we'd have to respin another distro. But, like PowerPC; all good things must come to an end.
- Just need to figure out how to make the switch. If it means re-installing, bah.
- It is terrible, because my eeePC only has 1GB in it.
- One more reason to decommission the hardware.

I think the original plan can still work, but like any good survey we know have more questions to ask!

Lubuntu/Xubuntu support for 14.04 LTS is 3 years not 5. It's going to be a LOT higher impact if they don't have support in 2019/2020 (which would be the case if 16.04 is 3 years too). This could obviously be mitigated by moving 32 bit to ports and having it be opt in. Lubuntu/Xubuntu 18.04 with 3 years would get us to 2021.
What can we do to make virt use less RAM? (Lots of Virtualbox)
What can we do to make bare metal use less RAM?
Building Wine on 64 bit? (The two easiest methods are defunct if we remove 32 bit images I think...
Can we do an actual upgrade path? Or at least start officially testing 32->64 "upgrade" re-installs?

Just to complete the application compatibility story (not from survey), Games are starting to be 64-bit only:

Unreal Engine 4 - https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Linux_Support
X-Com and likely future Feral ports - http://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/gamingonlinux-interviews-feral-interactive-about-xcom-linux-game-development.3946
War Thunder - http://warthunder.com/en/news/2608-war-thunder-is-now-available-on-linux-en

Raw Data can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iA062pCR1ayAMEKveUToEhq--9awyDXTEaL4fhsj8TU/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Still running 32 bit Ubuntu?

Bryan Quigley — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 03:38:54 GMT

I'm considering a proposal to have 16.04 LTS be the last release of Ubuntu with 32 bit images to run on 32 bit only machines (on x86 aka Intel/AMD only - this has no bearing on ARM). You would still be able to run 32 bit applications on 64 bit Ubuntu. Please answer my survey on how this would affect you or your organization. Please only answer if you are running 32-bit (x86) Ubuntu! Thanks! Form Closed. Comments

dragonbite says:

October 21, 2014 at 4:33 pm

Something like this is inevitable, but 32 bit is still helpful to have available. Myself, I have a number of old, single-core desktops running Ubuntu Server that cannot handle 64 bits, but are able to work as servers just fine. I also have a 64bit capable netbook I run 32bit Lubuntu on because of resources. Maybe make it so that a minimal disk or server disk is available 32 bit for a little bit longer, after it is dropped for desktop-orientated systems. Those that need a desktop and 32bit can install minimum and then add whatever is needed for the circumstance.
1. Rob van der Linde says:
  
  October 21, 2014 at 6:21 pm
  
  Do I have to fill in the form for each machine I run, it looks like it as there is no field for how many machines? I run 6 PC’s at home, all on 64 bit Kubuntu. My work machine is also 64 bit Kubuntu, and my 2 VM’s are also 64 bit. In fact, every VM I use at work is 64 bit as well. That’s 9 machines on 64 bit and none on 32, I haven’t run 32 bit for years now. Then I also have a couple of Beagleboards also running Trusty, but that’s ARM.
  1. bob says:
    
    October 22, 2014 at 12:55 am
    
    Did you miss this: “Please only answer if you are running 32-bit (x86) Ubuntu!” ???
    1. Bryan says:
      
      October 22, 2014 at 2:05 am
      
      To be fair, I added it because I was getting a lot of 64 bit users responding. Still it’s in the title…
bob says:

October 22, 2014 at 12:57 am

Phoronix http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?107903-Ubuntu-16-04-Might-Be-The-Distribution-s-Last-32-Bit-Release
vasilisc says:

October 22, 2014 at 4:01 am

My organization use Ubuntu Server LTS 32bits in virtual enviroment.
1. Bryan says:
  
  October 22, 2014 at 4:21 am
  
  Why? and what version of Ubuntu?
  1. vasilisc says:
    
    October 22, 2014 at 5:01 am
    
    1) Virtual Machine with guest OS Ubuntu Server LTS 32bit less consumption RAM, right? 2) Ubuntu Server 14.04 LTS
    1. Bryan says:
      
      October 22, 2014 at 12:06 pm
      
      It is less RAM consumption, but usually in the 64 MB to 128 MB range. Obviously can be worse depending on the app you are running. Generally the performance trade off makes it not worth it.
Ali Linx says:

October 22, 2014 at 9:23 am

Hi, it is good idea to run such surveys and it is good point to bring on the table. Old machines should not go to trash unless these are 100% dead. I realized that even Lubuntu or other distributions won’t be helpful in the coming years and for that, I have created this project: http://torios.org/ which is still Alpha at the moment but we are moving forward with solid steps and Beta is just around the corner. Now, ToriOS is based on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS which is well-known to be better on old hardware than 14.04 LTS and for that reason, I insisted to base ToriOS on 12.04 and the team has agreed. Now, what could happen when 16.04 is out and just in case Canonical decided to end the 32bit support by that cycle? or perhaps even before that? 14.04 LTS could be the last one? who knows? not to worry, ToriOS will make sure that old machines will stay in service as long as possible. Only time can tell and prove that 🙂 Thanks!
Walter Lapchynski says:

October 22, 2014 at 3:32 pm

My workplace uses 32 bit machines almost exclusively, using Ubuntu Server and FreeBSD for servers and Kubuntu for desktop. We have a mission that includes a commitment to being good environmental stewards. Our machines come from the local electronics recycling store. I admit we are a strange case, but why should we abandon our commitment to older machines when we officially support something committed to them (Lubuntu)? That being said, reading Mark Shuttleworth’s wiki page recently helped me understand that Ubuntu is not the distro for every case. Limited scope is necessary to achieve intended goals. Still, I love Ubuntu and it’s community but don’t want to contribute to landfills by buying new stuff just to keep using it. On the other hand one of our staff has been looking for the excuse to go FreeBSD as a desktop (note we are a manufacturer of a mechanical product i.e. our staff is largely not computer savvy). Please don’t make those of us at the company that provide user support suffer that curse! I guess the possibility exists to do community supported releases like we do for ppc, no? Finally, do I really need to fill this out for every machine? There are 30-40 of them.
1. Bryan says:
  
  October 22, 2014 at 3:45 pm
  
  >I guess the possibility exists to do community supported releases like we do for ppc, no? Members of the Lubuntu community have already expressed interest in making it community supported for Lubuntu. So the possibility definitely exists. Please do fill out the form as though that’s not going to happen though… >Finally, do I really need to fill this out for every machine? There are 30-40 of them. Generally no, just one entry and say their are 35 of them. If there are substantial differences between them breaking them up could be useful.. One thing I have noticed is that there is a high rate of people thinking they have a 32-bit machine when they have on capable of 64 bit. The only way I can confirm that myself is be seeing the processor. Then having RAM is useful to, because 64 bit on 1 GB is not fun. Of the last, let’s say 5, machines you got from the recycling how many were 64 bit capable?
  1. Walter Lapchynski says:
    
    October 22, 2014 at 5:28 pm
    
    > One thing I have noticed is that there is a high rate of people thinking they have a 32-bit machine when they have on capable of 64 bit. The only way I can confirm that myself is be seeing the processor. Then having RAM is useful to, because 64 bit on 1 GB is not fun. Of the last, let’s say 5, machines you got from the recycling how many were 64 bit capable? I understand your plight. I just wish there was a way to include info for multiple machines at a time. We actually have several machines that are of the same model and everything. Most of the machines we have are HP dc7800 SFF (SKU#GC760AV), using an Intel Core 2 Duo T5470 (type 0, family 6, model 15, stepping 13). So it is actually 64 bit capable, since /proc/cpuinfo does include the “lm” flag. We made the decision to go with 32 bit since we didn’t know what we’d end up with. I think that this may not be so relevant any more. That being said, how would we solve this? We would have to re-install every machine? You can’t “upgrade” to 64 bit can you?
    1. Bryan says:
      
      October 22, 2014 at 6:23 pm
      
      We made the decision to go with 32 bit since we didn’t know what we’d end up with. I think that this may not be so relevant any more. That being said, how would we solve this? We would have to re-install every machine? You can’t “upgrade” to 64 bit can you?
      You can reinstall in place (but backup first!) and choose the “Upgrade Ubuntu” option in the installer. I’ve moved machines from 32 to 64 bit using it, but it’s not heavily tested. One of the big things I’ve gotten from this survey to make an 32->64 supported upgrade path (even if it can’t be a dist-upgrade path).
javier says:

October 22, 2014 at 6:43 pm

I am using Ubuntu 10.04.4 LTS 32 bit installed with Wubi! Main OS: Vista Business 32bit
1. Bryan says:
  
  October 22, 2014 at 6:52 pm
  
  As a server? 10.04 for the destkop isn’t supported for 1.5+ years now.
Walter Lapchynski says:

October 22, 2014 at 7:25 pm

One other thought: are you dropping 32-bit support across all chips or is this only affecting Intel chips? Since Lubuntu is supporting PPC (primarily 32-bit), it would be a huge bummer if this affected PPC, too.
1. Bryan says:
  
  October 22, 2014 at 8:11 pm
  
  This survey/proposal isn’t touching on PPC.
BGBgus says:

October 23, 2014 at 7:17 pm

But, what would happen to the rest of tastes of Ubuntu? Distros like Xubuntu depends on “small” computers and give us a way to keep using our old but still working PC’s. I admit, I would never use Unity on my Pentium, but i still like to keep my repositories updated. Will Xubuntu just disapear? I could look for another GNU’s distribution, but it’s still a lost.
oldcomputerfan says:

December 15, 2014 at 4:08 pm

Hallo, Ich würde es schade finden wenn die 32 BIT Versionen weg fallen. Dann wird es viele auf Ubuntu- basierende Distributionen für ältere Computer nicht mehr geben. Gruß
Aaron says:

April 19, 2016 at 2:34 am

Hi… I run Lubuntu 14.04 32 bit on both my laptop and desktop systems. For myself personally, although my laptop is a 64 bit system, I’ve purposely chosen the 32 bit version of Lubuntu because I’ve found that a couple Linux games (that are available in the repositories) don’t crash with segmentation fault errors as they did when I was running Ubuntu 10.04 64 bit. I’m inclined to think there are still bugs to iron out with respect to running 32 bit programs on 64 bit Linux operating systems. As part of my work as a computer repair technician, I’ve also installed a 32 bit versions of Linux for a couple clients with older systems where (installing) Windows was not an option, including for financial reasons. This is where Linux fills an important role. The fact that there are 32 bit distributions available, free of charge, for older systems helps keep perfectly usable computers in the hands of those who cannot afford (or easily afford) to purchase a new(er) computer. And there are many people out there who are poor and in tight positions financially. For this reason especially, I request (for all distributions within the Ubuntu family) that this decision be delayed until enough 32 bit computers have been recycled/disposed of to where those that are left are in the extreme minority. Thank you for your time and consideration. 🙂
1. Bryan says:
  
  April 19, 2016 at 2:37 pm
  
  That is the goal… determining how judge when minority is the right time is the hard part. Please do test those games on 16.04 64-bit when you get a chance – feel free to report bugs here.
  1. Aaron says:
    
    April 20, 2016 at 5:27 pm
    
    Hi Bryan… I did issue a bug report a few years ago on one of the bugs but it was never acted on. 🙁 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tecnoballz/+bug/980091
    1. Bryan says:
      
      April 20, 2016 at 5:51 pm
      
      Yea, we generally don’t have enough resources to review every bug people report, sorry. If you can reproduce on Ubuntu 16.04, please report a new bug. Feel free to ping me here or on LP, if you find it still occurs.
      1. Aaron says:
        
        April 21, 2016 at 7:43 am
        
        Thanks! 🙂
      2. Aaron says:
        
        April 21, 2016 at 7:49 am
        
        Hi Bryan… If I have an occasion to try 16.04, I might do that. 🙂
witchyseattle says:

April 21, 2016 at 7:18 am

I myself am on a 32 bit and it would be devastating if I no longer could download Ubuntu. Isn’t the whole point is inclusion ? I only have 2 gig of RAM and cannot use a 64 on this laptop. So much for Ubuntu, they should change their name to sell out, because they are leaving a whole bunch of people behind, just because they are not running 64 bit and that is not fair !
1. Bryan says:
  
  April 22, 2016 at 1:38 pm
  
  First of all, no decision has been made – in fact 32 bit is fully supported for 16.04 LTS. Secondly, Ubuntu is available for free and it costs money for each architecture supported. Provide cat /proc/cpuinfo and we can double check if you definitely can’t run 64 bit.
Timothy D Lynch says:

July 20, 2016 at 11:36 pm

I still use 32 bit on about 5 units and would most likely switch to another distro with 32 bit support to have the uniform. This is the same reason I waited so long to change from 10.04 Ubuntu and will most likely go from 12.04 and do 2 upgrades to 16.04 to use Mate. Old Hardware. I guess I’m cheap and if the hardware is still working I keep using it. The getting it on the cheap is why I quite using Window even though at one time I owned a business supporting it.
Weasel says:

February 18, 2017 at 8:28 pm

Well I’m late to the party I suppose. I find it absurd to drop an architecture like x86 (32) when you support PPC, but that doesn’t matter. For most VMs, 32-bit is much better as it uses less resources. Not just RAM, but disk as well. Especially if you want to run 32-bit apps within the VM, which would require multilib, making the disk space difference that much more than on a pure 32-bit VM. Anyway, running multiple “slim” VMs in parallel tends to make it that much more obvious. Look, if you don’t want to support 32-bit as in “test it on every ‘ancient’ machine” then that’s still not so bad as dropping it. The problem isn’t only lack of technical support here, but as you see, LACK OF DOWNLOAD. You can drop “technical support” without dropping the download ISO file for those interested, like to run it in a VM — why should we care of real hardware anyway? Still, we need an iso. To me it just sounds like an excuse to be honest. But you take it away from everyone by dropping the download image. That’s why it needs to be preserved as an OPTION, even if not on main download page. Some things need to be “preserved”. Either way bandwidth wouldn’t be a problem since if it’s rarely downloaded then it doesn’t matter. “Popularity” isn’t the issue. It’s just having it *available* for anyone wishing to use it (e.g. for a VM). As a sidenote, people on the internet keep throwing around the word “use VM for old stuff” but how to use VM when we’re not provided the OS anymore? wtf.

Survey Results

Bryan Quigley — Sun, 21 Jul 2013 02:14:53 GMT

Results from my survey on 64 bit vs 32 bit usage on Unity. The raw survey results are also available. Feel free to do your own analysis. Format: # of machines - information about them..

Out of the 32 bit only machines:

4 - that are likely 32 bit only, but didn't provide enough information to confirm 1 - doesn't work so well, old savage card, 700 MB of RAM, Ubuntu 12.04 (so 2d only) *Remaining 14 32 bit only machines: 5 - with 1 GB of ram 9 - with 1.5 GB of ram or more Ubuntu Version: 6 - 13.04 1 - 12.10 7 - 12.04 Processor: 7 - Intel Atom From comments, 3 of these 32 bit only users find Unity slow, but usable. (All three are Atom N270/N280)

64 bit capable but:

2 - that should be 64 capable (and the users know this), but it doesn't work.. If this is you, please file a bug! 2 - have 64 bit capable machines (and 2GB of ram) and don't actually know it. 5 - have 64 bit capable machines, but run 32 bit Ubuntu (1 with 1 GB of RAM who mentions that the dash is slow)

Other scenarios:

1 - machine stuck at 12.04 because 12.10 requires PAE (is this true?) 1 - Parallels VM that has better performance on 32 bit from user 2 - that actually use other desktop environments cause they find Unity unusable ("Unity is unuseable because i only have 1 GIG Ram")

Not particularly relevant:

1 - let's not discuss this again... 1 - armv7 :) 9 - users who have 64 bit machines that work fine and responded anyway.. 1 - running Unity on servers...

Conclusion?

For some reason whenever I do a survey I expect that the results will clearly paint the way to go forward. They almost never do, but they can be used to start discussions. I'm particularly concerned about the 2 users with 64 bit capable machines which they can't get to run 64 bit. Some people have 64 bit machines with low RAM and would also be better served with a lighter option. Others have quite beefy 32 bit machines with 4GB of RAM and a nice video card that can rock Unity. Also some motherboard manufacturers disabled 64 bit support even though the processor supported it... awesome. To default to 32 or 64 bit when downloading Ubuntu? Given the data, I think we can make a better exception case for 32 bit now.. Right now, it says: "If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the 64-bit download. Read more " I think it's easier for most people to see and understand: "If you have a 5+ year old PC, a 3+ year old netbook, or 1 GB of ram choose the 32 bit version." * Thoughts? * Theoretically we could even provide instructions for our users to figure this out. Add a "Not sure?" in that case.

Running Ubuntu/Unity on a machine that is not 64 bit capable?

Bryan Quigley — Thu, 13 Jun 2013 04:32:40 GMT

I have a theory and I would like your help to disprove it (like all good science, aim to disprove it first). The basic theory is that there are very few computers in one of these groups that is also not in the other:

64 Bit Capable hardware
Machines that can run Ubuntu/Unity

Or in other words: If you can run Ubuntu with Unity you almost definitely have 64 bit capable hardware. And, if you have 64 bit hardware you can run Ubuntu with Unity.

Help prove me wrong! Answer the following questions (only submit if you answer yes to either):

If you can't see the form below, click here.

Rolling Release - w/ Upstream Stable Cadence, Upstream Beta Cadence, and Limited Delta Buffer

Bryan Quigley — Sun, 17 Mar 2013 15:57:26 GMT

Upstream Stable Cadence

We track upstreams, what they consider stable, we consider stable, we ship in rolling release under *conditions.

Upstream Beta Cadence

We track upstreams beta/rc repo, what they consider "almost stable", we consider worth getting extremely easy user testing. We try to ship in Rolling Release archive, but with different package names. This will not work for everything. Some upstreams don't really have RC/beta releases, others might be too complicated to keep in repo. For example, meta-packages for: firefox-beta, linux-rcs, etc. Goal would be to evaluate doing this with packages in main only. Others, like all of Gnome, might need a different plan.

Data. Lots of data.

We need data that we can get an idea of how stable a product is. Some combination of reported bugs, automatic bugs, weighted in different ways. The data should be generated from both the beta and stable releases. We also need to better connect users of the beta releases to upstream, faster, when they have a problem.

"Limited Delta Buffer" (*conditions)

First - Big changes to stable release separated by 3 weeks initially. New Kernel and new Xorg both want to get in? Only 1 get's in every 3 weeks. In this case I would suggest letting the kernel go first, then three weeks later Xorg get's in. This limits the volatility of the rolling release by limiting updates from all coming at the same time. Second - Data driven modifications to buffering time, who get's in first, and what blocks what. For a new kernel the data would come from that exact kernel in the beta package, If we find that the kernel never breaks anything and is super stable, move it to just a one week buffer. Third - refine if we consider upstream to be "wrong". Maybe Linux kernel rc3 and above is all we ship in beta package, etc. Rationale: We need a new concept of a stable system for a Rolling Release. It should take advantage of and contribute to upstreams own stabilization procedures (their "beta cadence") while limiting the rate of change (delta) users of the rolling release need to deal with. As for using 'Months', they are way to arbitrary. Some months there will be nothing interesting, others we could have a new kernel, Xorg, Unity, and Gnome. Obviously, this isn't perfect and needs a bunch more refinement, I just wanted to get this out there before March 18th (the deadline for proposals). Thanks for reading and please let me know what you think.

>Let's take security to the next level...

Bryan Quigley — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:06:00 GMT

Current Setup: An application has to be limited by the most lax permission in order to maintain the functionality. For an application that will ever have access to the user's files this means it needs to have access to all of the users files. Possible Solution: Have the file browser/chooser application give temporary permissions for the specific chosen files/folder to the application that launched the file chooser. Care will need to be taken so that "recent files" in applications still work as expected. This may require a per application recent file list to be stored in the security system. Example Use Cases / How it does it: Picture Viewer 1) User clicks on Picture with an active exploit in it (on the desktop) 2) Opens with default photo viewer 3) The exploit now has full control of the photo viewer, but can only access: Photo viewers recently opened photos The photo with the exploit Photo viewer config Anything else the photo viewer can access (say uploading to flickr) All other photo's in library (if configured, which in this example it is not) *) All other documents remain secure... How it did it. (behind the scenes): the user opened 4 pictures from the file manager, the application had those 4 pictures added to it's "per application recent file permission list" thereby enabling the user to open them directly from the photo manager at any point in the future. That list was customized for the application to limit the list to the 4 most recent due to the application only having 4 option in it's "recent list". This list is used by apparmor/selinux to enable access to the pictures for the application. Rhythmbox 1) User configures library (using directory chooser)\ - Called with options to set up a permanent user/application permission for the music folder in question - this allows rhythmbox to access all files contained within 2) User listens to internet radio and finds a malicious file 3) The malicious file deletes everything it can touch, the user loses her entire music collection, but has all documents intact. When configuring the rhythmbox library directory, Rhythmbox used a special call to the directory chooser to ask it to switch it's permanent directory to whatever the user chooses, thereby adding the necessary rules as well. Of course, if you can already do this with selinux/apparmor (at about the same complication level) please tell me how :)

Comments

Dylan McCall says:

January 21, 2010 at 5:35 pm

>Here you go: http://plash.beasts.org/powerbox.html I've been working on a little thing called Aether (it'll be ready for showing off by February, hopefully) which could help solve this problem. As part of its design, file choosers end up happening outside of an application. A few bells and whistles later and we have your idea!
Ethan Anderson says:

January 21, 2010 at 8:51 pm

>Isn't Android neat? 😀
Dylan McCall says:

January 22, 2010 at 5:15 am

>Oh, nifty! Thanks for pointing that out, Ethan. I didn't realize Android did this. Just so you know, jQuigs, that's over here: http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage.html
gQuigs says:

January 22, 2010 at 5:29 am

>Dylan: Awesome! Looking forward to it. Ethan: yes 🙂

Memory Requirements

Bryan Quigley — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 06:19:00 GMT

Mostly kicked off by this post (Dead, now wayback machine)

OS	Required / Realistic
Ubuntu (full Gnome)	384 MB / 512 MB
Xubuntu	192 MB / 256 MB
Windows XP	64 MB / 128 MB
Windows Vista Home Basic	512 MB
Windows Vista (Other)	1 GB
Windows 7 32 bit	1 GB
Windows 7 64 bit	2 GB

Ubuntu is approaching Windows Vista Home's minimum memory specs, but is still a long way off our biggest competitor, Windows XP (70% market share and our only real competitor in netbooks). With netbooks usually having 512 - 1 GB of memory, it seems like XP would really let the user run many more applications (yes I am ignoring anti-virus and all the other random stuff OEMs load onto Windows to make it slower). So, I just have one question: How hard would it be to reduce Ubuntu's memory usage from 9.10 to 10.04 by just 64 MB (oh, and does anyone want to make this an official goal for 10.04)? I have knowledge of at least one school district where the majority of computers have only 128 MB of RAM. They are running XP and want to switch to Linux, but it was simply not an option due to memory. (And no if they don't have a big IT budget, read: no budget for LTSP) Win 7 requirements http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/system-requirements.aspx Win xp requirements http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314865 Ubuntu requirements https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements Win Vista requirements http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/get/system-requirements.aspx

>Why do you like Free Software and Ubuntu?

Bryan Quigley — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:45:00 GMT

>Why do you like Free Software and Ubuntu? My Answer: I consider software important. Really really important. Why? Most people don't really understand just how much power software has over our current society. Let's pretend all the software in the world was really just one single person. What could that person do?

Change everyone's bank account balances (and change local records to match so noone notices!)
Choose many elected officials
Isolate individuals socially, make their emails go unanswered, etc (or worse make seem to send emails creating arguments)
In some places, arrest people
Ruin a credit score
Change the news
Change history
Nuke the world (or just provide bad information to leaders and let them do it)

Yes, quite skynetish, eh? Luckily software isn't just one individual, nor was it written by one person. But the power is still held by all of the software in the world (or really the people who created it). I believe that an essential part of democracy is allowing those that are interested to have a hand in controlling the systems that have the power. How? The (A)GPL ensure perpetually that the end user of the software will have the clear ability to take control of the software on their devices. The AGPL could also be used to force transparency, another democratic necessity, of the methods used in voting, banking, etc. A world with just Free Software (let's just say all AGPL for simplicity) should be substantially closer to perfect competition. Why?

It lowers the barrier to entry, you can just pick up the source code to Gmail and make a new product. (Which Gmail can then copy from you).
More sellers. The more sellers, the more responsive a supplier needs to be to you cause you can switch.
Similar Products. They are mostly compatible with their specific value adds that will be likely incorporated into the next version of a competitor.

Perhaps this sounds a lot like Linux distros to you? :) Well, Why Ubuntu? We aren't there yet Ubuntu makes some of the necessary compromises (proprietary drivers, etc) that give many more people, more of the freedom and control then they would have had without it. Right now, I feel Ubuntu has the best chance of getting us closer. Community People need help to get involved with politics; communities exist to help concerned citizens to help change their governments. The Ubuntu community is here to help new users and contributors get involved helping to shape their software. Which is critical, because even if you have the freedom or right, doesn't mean you have the knowledge to use it. Receptive communities, like Ubuntu's, help get the knowledge to you. Where are you going with this? I was actually trying to answer the question, Why do I hate Microsoft? (I mean, come on, I don't want Mono included on the default Ubuntu install, so I clearly hate Microsoft or Novell, or somebody) I don't hate Microsoft. I don't consider myself anti Microsoft or anti Mono. I have actually set people up to use both Windows and Mono applications before, gasp! And I actually like Novell. (I'm also a MCSA) I consider myself pro Free Software and pro community created and governed languages (as well as content, and much more). We have a better way to create software, a more democratic control structure over what we do, and most importantly, we give users great software and a path (through the community) to help them be in control of their software and have a say in its future. Related Posts, somewhat referenced: SciAm Column on "Rational Atheism"; The Dangers of Being "Anti" Rather Than "Pro" Doctor Mo previously had a post called "Why do you like Microsoft"

Bad Memory HowTo

Bryan Quigley — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 06:03:00 GMT

So.. Memtest tells you have bad ram! Here are your easy options:

Buy new ram
Turn off everything after the bad memory* (mem=###M option)
Turn off just the memory around the bad memory* (memmap=#M$###M option)

*May require moving RAM around in the computer for best results. Testing The Memory Tool 1: Memtest There is the classic Memtest which is on every Ubuntu LiveCD and most other Free operating system CDs. It tests memory and gives you back fun technical numbers and also what sectors are bad in the easier form of 797M or 84M. It's the easier number we want. So try to write down the range (if applicable) of bad results. Tool 2: Memtester Memtester (click here to install) is like memtest only it runs from a command line once Ubuntu has loaded. It can't test your whole ram so you should make sure that it would be testing the area that memtest has detected being bad. You absolutely need to run it with sudo/root. WARNING: Don' try to test your whole RAM, just say 100M over where the error is. Doing really close to your actual total ram will make your computer unresponsive (unless you are following this with nothing but a shell, then you might be fine). Ex. Let's say you have 150M taken up by your OS, the badram is at 797M (from memtest) and you have 1024M total memory. This command would work:

sudo memtester 750M

Option 1 - Buy New Ram Simple. Easy. Safest. Might be cheap if your computer supports new ram. Wastes hardware that we could likely get to work. Some people say that once RAM starts to go, it will just keep getting worse, I personally don't believe them. I will not be liable for you losing data by using bad RAM. Use YOUR own judgment. Option 2 - Turn off everything after the bad memory (mem=###M option) This is simple take the lowest number from memtest, subtract let's say 3 from it for a bit of safety. Then add it to your kernel command line for bootup. Ex. So for bad memory at 797M we would add to the default kernel options:

mem=795M

Option 3 - Turn off just the memory around the bad memory (memmap=#M$###M option) WARNING: This is much less tested than Option 2. There may be bugs lurking about. This isn't much more difficult. Instead of just stopping at 795M, we are going to stop at 795M but then only ignore the next 10M. If there are multiple places try to make a range that includes them both. Ex. So for bad memory at 804M and 806M we could use:

memmap=10M$800M

But for this option I will fell better if you use memtester afterwards to make sure you actually got the right memory spot. (And maybe do it before too, too make sure you actually were testing the right spots in the test) HowTo Kernel Default Options Edit the file /boot/grub/menu.lst with sudo/root (ex. sudo nano /boot/grub/menu.lst)\ Navigate to here

## ## Start Default Options ## ## default kernel options ## default kernel options for automagic boot options ## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z ## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted. ## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro ## kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro ## kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro # kopt=root=UUID=f0906667-bcde-4b64-86bc-5a47320d5517 ro

Edit the line (DO NOT GET RID OF THE #):

# kopt=root=UUID=f0906667-bcde-4b64-86bc-5a47320d5517 ro (add mem stuff here)

Then run:

sudo update-grub

Then reboot. Thanks for following my HowTo. Many happy PCs and memory modules saved from landfills. Comments

LeDopore says:

August 7, 2009 at 4:46 pm

>Hey gQuig, Thanks for the help! You have a well-written tutorial that's a beacon of hope for people with sick computers. I have a quick question. When I try to work around my bad RAM, it looks like top still sees just as much RAM as before. Does that mean that my kernel isn't avoiding the bad ram? My menu.lst file had the following line in it: # kopt=root=UUID=a9f39ac2-c67f-418e-93ce-967bdda5e3a4 ro memmap=100M$1800M and I did remember to sudo update-grub. Thanks for your help! LeDopore
gQuigs says:

August 7, 2009 at 8:43 pm

>@LeDopore: tell me more about your setup. Anything odd? It should definitely report a different amount. Try looking at: cat /proc/meminfo When you are booting up, stop at grub, by pressing escape and try to edit the lines to see what is actually being used. Remove it and double check that it didn't change the amount of ram.
LeDopore says:

August 7, 2009 at 9:13 pm

>Thanks, gQuigs. I hadn't known about editing the boot options with grub. I added the memmap=100M$1800M to grub right at boot and my memory available dropped by 100 megs, so I guess the trouble was that my grub wasn't listening to my /boot/grub/menu.lst file. I'll look into this; thanks a million for the help! Cheers, LeDopore
LeDopore says:

August 7, 2009 at 9:25 pm

>Here's the permanent fix: I have Ubuntu 9.04 running, but I've upgraded a few times so there might be some funny cobwebs in my installation. In any case, I found that adding memmap=100M$1800M under # defoptions (see below) propagates the memory reduction when you run update-grub, even though adding it earlier didn't. ## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with the ## alternatives ## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5 # defoptions=quiet splash memmap=100M$1800M Thanks again for the help! LeDopore
Bogdan C. says:

August 15, 2009 at 2:22 pm

>You can map multiple intervals of your ram. Lets say that you want to "ban" 20 MB from 550 to 570 and 35 MB from 800 to 835 You can write at the end of the line mentioned in the post above "memmap=…" multiple times. Like this: # kopt=root=UUID=a9f39ac2-c67f-418e-93ce-967bdda5e3a4 ro memmap=20M$550M memmap=35M$800M
prh says:

December 11, 2009 at 12:16 pm

>thanks for this really helpful blog – just a question: when, after adding this (multiple) memmap, I start from grub the windows2000 installation I also have on my hard disk, is then the bad memory also blocked for windows? prh
Bogdan C. says:

December 12, 2009 at 10:42 pm

>Hm… i don't know if this has any effect on Windows. But you can test this easily: just block, for example, 50 MB of ram. IF Windows shows you (yourAmountOfRam-50) MB then you are one lucky guy 😛
Deftronic says:

December 27, 2009 at 4:30 pm

>hello i'm trying to apply this tutorial but i got ubuntu 9.10 karmic (first installation) so that i don't got this menu.lst file i can find a /boot/grub/grub.cfg but there's no kopt=root … in the while content any help ? the grub.cfg file content => # # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE # # It is automatically generated by /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig using templates # from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub # ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ### if [ -s /boot/grub/grubenv ]; then have_grubenv=true load_env fi set default="0" if [ ${prev_saved_entry} ]; then saved_entry=${prev_saved_entry} save_env saved_entry prev_saved_entry= save_env prev_saved_entry fi insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,6) search –no-floppy –fs-uuid –set 0fac7a3d-ec9c-4cd2-899e-a78a899c973b if loadfont /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 ; then set gfxmode=640×480 insmod gfxterm insmod vbe if terminal_output gfxterm ; then true ; else # For backward compatibility with versions of terminal.mod that don't # understand terminal_output terminal gfxterm fi fi if [ ${recordfail} = 1 ]; then set timeout=-1 else set timeout=10 fi ### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ### set menu_color_normal=white/black set menu_color_highlight=black/white ### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### menuentry "Ubuntu, Linux 2.6.31-16-generic" { recordfail=1 if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi set quiet=1 insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,1) search –no-floppy –fs-uuid –set f017e4b3-7a62-48d7-a2fe-d3842503a7e3 linux /vmlinuz-2.6.31-16-generic root=UUID=0fac7a3d-ec9c-4cd2-899e-a78a899c973b ro quiet splash initrd /initrd.img-2.6.31-16-generic } menuentry "Ubuntu, Linux 2.6.31-16-generic (recovery mode)" { recordfail=1 if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,1) search –no-floppy –fs-uuid –set f017e4b3-7a62-48d7-a2fe-d3842503a7e3 linux /vmlinuz-2.6.31-16-generic root=UUID=0fac7a3d-ec9c-4cd2-899e-a78a899c973b ro single initrd /initrd.img-2.6.31-16-generic } menuentry "Ubuntu, Linux 2.6.31-14-generic" { recordfail=1 if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi set quiet=1 insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,1) search –no-floppy –fs-uuid –set f017e4b3-7a62-48d7-a2fe-d3842503a7e3 linux /vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=0fac7a3d-ec9c-4cd2-899e-a78a899c973b ro quiet splash initrd /initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic } menuentry "Ubuntu, Linux 2.6.31-14-generic (recovery mode)" { recordfail=1 if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then save_env recordfail; fi insmod ext2 set root=(hd0,1) search –no-floppy –fs-uuid –set f017e4b3-7a62-48d7-a2fe-d3842503a7e3 linux /vmlinuz-2.6.31-14-generic root=UUID=0fac7a3d-ec9c-4cd2-899e-a78a899c973b ro single initrd /initrd.img-2.6.31-14-generic } ### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+)" { linux16 /memtest86+.bin } menuentry "Memory test (memtest86+, serial console 115200)" { linux16 /memtest86+.bin console=ttyS0,115200n8 } ### END /etc/grub.d/20_memtest86+ ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### if [ ${timeout} != -1 ]; then if keystatus; then if keystatus –shift; then set timeout=-1 else set timeout=0 fi else if sleep –interruptible 3 ; then set timeout=0 fi fi fi ### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### # This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the # menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change # the 'exec tail' line above. ### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
jordanwb says:

December 31, 2009 at 4:14 pm

>Thanks. I got a 1 Gigabyte stick with one bad address and I don't want to throw it out. I'll try this.
Bogdan C. says:

January 15, 2010 at 12:14 pm

>Deftronic … i had this problem too. Now (in Ubuntu 9.10) the boot loader is upgraded and the menu.lst file doesn't exist. Stop searching it. The solution is… different now. You have to edit the /etc/default/grub file (or grub.cfg; i don't know exactly… i don't have my computer with linux near me). Of course… you have to have admin rights, so edit this file with sudo. Now… you will se something like this: # If you change this file, run 'update-grub' afterwards to update # /boot/grub/grub.cfg. GRUB_DEFAULT=0 GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0 GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=false GRUB_TIMEOUT="10" GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=`lsb_release -i -s 2> /dev/null || echo Debian` GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash memmap=54M\\\$970M" GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" save the file and run sudo update-grub Those backslashes are important so don't forget them. And 3 of those are now necessary, as you can see in the code posted above. Of course, you can map, as before, more than one part of your memory. In this case the above line will look something like this: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash memmap=14M\\\$170M memmap=54M\\\$340M memmap=34M\\\$670M" Anyway… hope this helped you a little 🙂

Gimmy says:

September 5, 2014 at 10:27 pm

hi all, Thank you for all the info. I am experiencing problems with my RAM, so I decided to use Memtest86+ to locate the errors and Memtester to double check them. I tried then to use Memtester as you suggest here, but I am not sure about the description you gave. I downloaded the last version and from the web I understood that: sudo memtester 750M is just going to lock (malloc) a block of 750MB in size and test it without consideration of WHERE this block is. If the aim is to test a specific area, it is necessary to give memtester a physical address and then the amount of MB from there onwards. e.g.: for testing 100MB after a certain address 0xfffblabla sudo memtester -p 0xffffblabla 100M Does anybody know how I can get the physical address of the defecting memory? Thanks!
1. Bryan says:
  
  September 6, 2014 at 1:20 am
  
  Yup, you understand why memtester isn’t as useful as far as I’ve found. I do believe memtester will allocate contiguous memory though, so if you know where it is from memtest86+ you should be able to get it to allocate to cover the bad spot.
  1. Gimmy says:
    
    September 6, 2014 at 2:49 pm
    
    Yes, but I am not sure how to read the memtest86+ output… The list of errors is not very clear to me. I tried to isolate some areas using grub. I’m waiting to see as it goes. fingers crossed.
Myron Shank, M.D., Ph.D. says:

November 22, 2014 at 6:57 pm

I had similar problems, but found the available instructions incomplete and confusing, so I wrote these instructions to assume as little background as possible. 1. Run Memtest86+ in “badram” output (preferably from a bootable external medium). When it starts, type “c” (“configuration”), then “4” (“Error Report Mode”), then “3” (“Bad RAM Patterns”), then “0” (“Continue”). 2. Copy the output that follows any lines beginning with “badram=”. 3. Open a terminal (command line). 4. Change to the directory where the “grub” file is located. For example, “cd /etc/default”. 5. With “root” privileges, use a text editor to open the “grub” file (If you are not signed in as “root,” use “sudo.” You will be asked for the “root” password. In Linux and other Unix derivatives, “root” is equivalent to Windows’ “Administrator.”). For example, type “sudo nano grub” (This temporarily changes the user to “root” and opens the file “grub” with the “nano” text editor.) 6. Find the section describing memtest. Uncomment the last line (Delete the special character at the beginning of the line, such as “#,” “>,” or “!”). This makes it active (for example, “#GRUB_BADRAM=” becomes “GRUB_BADRAM=”). Replace the example addresses (following “GRUB_BADRAM=”), with the “badram=” output that you copied from Memtest86+ (for example, “0x98f548a0,0xfffffffc”). Save (or “write out”) your changes. 7. In the terminal (command line), update the “grub.cfg” file, by typing “sudo update-grub”. 8. Reboot.
1. James R says:
  
  March 7, 2015 at 6:10 am
  
  Myron, I found your comment to be quite instructive, thank you.